Finding balance

Special Guest Caroline Stocks is a successful lawyer that has turned her hand to crafting soap for keyworkers during lockdown. 

Caroline shares her story on overcoming burnout and moving away from the stigma attached to it. She also talks about her positive new venture, Smell BEEautiful, that is doing great work for people in the local community.

startwithin.co.uk

Transcript

Abbey O'Hara 
Hi, Caroline. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Hi, Abbey. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
It's nice to have you on the podcast this week. Caroline Stocks of Smell Beeautiful, which is an absolutely amazing and beautiful...And so I say company but I'll let you explain what Smell Beeautiful is a little bit later on. But yeah, I'm really pleased to have you on and and you've got such an interesting journey and From career changes to the to the charity work that you're doing right now, so do you want to just start by introducing yourself to the listeners and tell us a little bit about Caroline and what smell beeautiful is? 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Yes Thanks Abbey. And so I'm I'm a full time lawyer and am not a particularly crafty person. When lockdown happened, I just thought this need to actually do something productive to try and help the local community. I've seen community to keep frontline workers doing amazing things and I wanted to acknowledge that in some way. So I started this nonprofit called smell beeautiful. And I make handmade honey soap and I gift it to people in the community safe frontline workers and organisations to just kind of acknowledge That's what they're doing the over covered relief. It's a small act, but I just wanted to do something. So today, we've gifted over 1000 packs safe to organisations like the Northampton General Hospital, local foodbanks, and also workers in campaigns. And the reason why it's it's 180 safe is because we're being told that hygiene is so important. We needed to wash our hands. And I was particularly conscious that frontline workers who are doing this so much, were drawing out their hands and it's uncommon. It's not a comfortable feeling. So my recipes, focus on being kind to the skin and nourishing the skin and include a lot of natural movements to help us 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
Yeah, and that's so pretty As well the presentation is it's amazing. Especially when you think someone's donating so tonight You said you're not crafty and you've not done it before but you cannot tell that I absolutely thought you're a business and I came across now beautiful. They get there such nicely crafted, beautiful. So 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
thank you so much for saying that I'd be in Yeah, I have that comment before seeing it doesn't feel okay, maybe I am doing something right. Because you know, it is slightly scary when you start this and thinking you want to make a really high quality product that you started scratch trying to reset, how to make the seat and then also think, how can I fit this nonprofit together? It's done before as I said, so it's all very new territory. Yeah. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
And so today we're not just talking about smell beautiful. We're talking a little bit about your career and your job and how it got you to stop smell beautiful as well. We So, I don't know if you want to start by telling us a little bit about your job now or what your job was like before. Smell beautiful. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Yeah, absolutely. Abby, and you're right to pick up on that because it has been my career journey, particularly over the last year or so. That particularly impart prompted me to do this this initiative, small, beautiful, mentioned that I'm a full time lawyer and I work specifically in mergers and acquisitions. They've been a corporate lawyer worked in private practice for about six years and recently moved a BA still doing what I do since emerges and acquisitions law but in house for a corporation, huh? 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
So why was it that you decided to make that change them? Why did you move in house that was that just a career decision, or Were there any challenges that you've had before 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Yeah. So look, I'll be and I think this is one of the themes that I wanted to try out on on this podcast hasn't always been an easy career story for me. And I was prompted to change my career After experiencing some symptoms associated with with burnouts, and when those happens, I decided to just reassess things. look at why they were happening and think about what do I need to do to rebalance things in my life? Yeah. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
Yeah. And and just for the listeners benefit out there. And I just thought I'd take a minute talking about what burnout is. Because it's one of those new terms isn't it's, you know, been floating around the last couple of years, but some people might not understand what it is or what the difference is between burnout and stress, maybe. So I've got the definitely burnout here is a state of emotional physical and mental exhaustion caused by excessive and prolonged stress. So is that when you say that you are burnt out is that? Does that kind of resonate with you? Is that what you were feeling at that time? 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
It does Abby and I'm going to talk about this quite frankly, but but firstly, I just want to acknowledge that it is not easy to talk about. And I think there's a lot of layers to that. But But fundamentally, there is a huge stigma to talking about, particularly in this society where we're just not meant to talk about our emotions, say say candidly. But I think particularly amongst professions that with with high achievers, there's also bundled into that there can be a sense of failure associated with talking about burnouts. You couldn't hack the lifestyle of the environment. So I just want to bring that to the fore, because talking about it isn't easy. It's hard to be vulnerable. But I wanted to do this just because if there was someone listening, he was going through that. Or if there's someone who hasn't experienced it, and perhaps after he was more able to engage in these conversations, I think the workplace may be a better place as a result. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
Yeah. And thank you for being so open and honest and brave, to share your story with us today. And we do really appreciate it and like you say, one of the big things that we can do when it comes to mental health is talk about it. And the more we talk, the more open other people might be or might respond and realise that we're not on our own. So thank you so much for bringing this out today. So if we talk a little bit about your ex But then was there any significant event or issues it led towards you being burnt out? Or what? When did you realise that you were actually burnt out? 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
I think it was a gradual process. And it was very nuanced. What I also want to make clear is, burnout will be very different for each person. I think the fundamental concept of burnout is just being in an environment that isn't right for you. And that could be for a multitude of different reasons, sometimes completely unconnected with the environment itself, but perhaps more just to fit that you have with it. And I found for me, it was it was a long term process. I think, you know, I've been in private practice for six years. I had loved it. For most of that time. emanating As they go from transaction to transaction, and we get a thrill working on those deals, it was exciting. But over time, I needed to shift and it wasn't perceptible from the outside, you know, I was still getting great feedback on what I was doing. I don't think it would have been visible, but internally, it felt different. I'm a very happy and upbeat person. But I was neat to see some of that shift internally. And I think the best example I could give is just around you know, that typical Friday, Sunday night feeling that we can all have about. Yeah. Well, I found one that was just getting more and more extreme. I think you have to just take stock and think okay, well Why is this happening? The thing I want to draw out is, you know, as I say, it's going to be personal for each person. And it doesn't mean when I'm saying the story like, oh, the workplace was a terrible place. It was toxic. No, it wasn't. It's just, it was a realisation that for me, they needed to be some changes. And I used to think about what wasn't making me happy and what was and just focus on on thinking, Okay, how do I check to see what will make me happy and give me all the happiness that I had felt had been diminished or worse? 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
Yeah. And I think what I've taken from that is one of the biggest things about that is that you actually recognised burnout. I think, for a lot of people, that can be the first hurdle not even realising that what you're experiencing is burnout because some of the things you said there like maybe loss of interest in a job that you want to And people wouldn't associate with burnout, burnout or stress, either. So I've got some of the symptoms here of burnout are exhaustion, and headaches, feeling detached and loss of motivation, which is a guess what you said you were feeling my withdrawal and a negative outlook. And the one that's most interesting for me is that lowered immunity is actually a symptom, which you'd never think, Oh, I keep having a cold or I keep getting flu, or anything like that. That's a physical symptom on the body. I've never associated before with a mental health condition, but actually, that can be a massive symptom of burnout. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Yeah, you know, and our bodies are so powerful and in tune with our thoughts. That it there can be physical manifest. And what your body's trying to tell you through the mental symptoms and the physical symptoms is this isn't the right environment for you. It's just trying to tell you make an adjustment. This isn't this isn't the right environment. And you touched on people just acknowledging that and yeah, it's it's so important, but it's also so hard IBM, and it was what I was alluding to the stigma, and I think the sense of failure that can come with that it's, yeah, managing. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
And I think failure is a massive one. And so I'm not successful lawyer like you. But I have worked for law firms in the past and in a marketing role. And one thing that I've noticed about the industry is that it's very competitive. And people will be staying late each night and very late in one firm that I left work for. And they even had a bedroom on site for lawyers that needed to stay during the night when they're working on a case and what seemed alien to me that people would need to do that was perfectly normal in that industry. And it's very competitive. And like I said, so maybe like, if you confessed to struggling, maybe that would be seen as a failure. Maybe you want to be seen as the person that's been successful and at the top and doing all the work. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Oh, yes, very much so. And, you know, one of my reservations about talking about this, frankly, was thinking well, would it harm my career, you know, that those feelings are real and this is me, he's he's come out of the burnout and is now thriving in the career I have Now see, that really is prompting me to speak about it because I think he was I'm feeling like that think how it must be for someone who's perhaps still in that environment, experiencing those symptoms and maybe feel. And what I really want to say to today's people is, you're not you're free to make a choice and free age and I'm not advocating it may not be right for everyone to leave their jobs. It may just be a small adjustment that they need to make, but it can have a profound impact. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
Yeah. Yeah. So because you actually went to the extreme, didn't you and you and quit your job, and you went away, travelling, and then you've come back and got a new career and started a new venture. So, like you say that that's, that's one extreme. We'll talk a little bit more about that in a minute. But, but like you say, it could just be a small adjustment. Maybe in the workplace or something that could really help without having to go down that route? I mean, do you think there was anything different that your employer could have done previously? 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Yeah, you know, Abby, it's one of those questions that inevitably will come up in talking about a story like this. I look back now at my employers, and I have a lot of positive memories. You know, I learned so much, there were some really talented people that who mentored me and taught me along the way. And, you know, there's a lot of positives to take out from from that. And I also want to acknowledge that like, yes, mobile phones can be a very stressful place to be. But at one point, I loved that. And I also see people who really thrive in that kind of competitive environment, good for them. And what I'm trying to say is, this isn't a terrible place to work. A lot of people can do really well that and it's a perfect fit for them. I don't think the employer in what I'm trying to draw out is it every burn out case is going to be very personal. And maybe there can be some examples where Yes, it could be a toxic workplace. That wasn't my experience, but it can be different for each person. I think for me. It was more a personal decision. And look, the environment isn't right than me, I need to make change. Now, I think more broadly, and that is more that the legal profession as a whole needs to do around mental health. We're making great strides. I see that now. I'm speaking to people who you are direct stakeholders in that process and we are doing amazing things but there is more that we need to do. And I think part of it perhaps is addressing the stigma of Talking about mental health. And, you know, going back to that sense of failure, you know, and denikin in the kind of profession, Marian, where you have these high fliers, high achievers, you just, it's hard to talk about vulnerabilities in that way. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
No, I think you're absolutely right. I think I think what, what people could do is it's about acceptance, isn't it and talking within the workplace and recognising that everyone's different. So in your case, it just wasn't the right environment for you. But you mentioned earlier that that sometimes there can be that toxic workplace where everyone's feeling the same. So I think the more that we communicate and accept each other, and the more we can learn about burnout and address it, and maybe even prevent it in some cases. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Definitely, definitely. Yeah, it's about having the courage to see, see the environment what it is and making adjustments. So yeah, if you are in a toxic work environment, feeling like you're not trapped, and you don't have to stay there. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
Yeah, definitely. And so now we're coming up to the exciting bit that wanted to talk about that. I already mentioned that you quit your job. And so I wanted to talk about what you did, then, once you'd recognise that burnout and what you did to to reboot. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Yeah. So I know you're gonna want to talk about the the trip, but I just want to take a step back and just say, Well, you know, I've changed career and well, that has been going but I want to also say like it you know, it's not a massive shift. I'm still doing m&a. But what I found is when I realised that I was having some symptoms of burnout, just getting free quite methodically and thinking well, what wasn't working and what was and then just finding a role but really focused on on my passion. So I'm now focusing on the commercial side, which I'm thrilled about and taking a more it, high level approach to this. So I'm focusing on the project management skills, the communication skills, all the aspects of the job that I really, truly did love, and it's a role that just focuses on that out because, you know, as I say, to to making an adjustment big or small, it should be focusing on what really drives you and what makes you feel happy in your job. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
Yeah, yeah. So you made the decision to quit. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Yes, yeah. And as we're alluding to you I made a trip and I made You're probably gonna say Eat Pray Love It was but there was a purpose behind it because what I wanted to do is get a bit of you fulfilled, refill the happiness I've been feeling was lacking before will say take stock of what had happened and put steps in place to move on from that so I built up my confidence again through learning new skills so I got a scuba diving certificates and I also I also love yoga which I haven't done before with a wonderful teacher called cristiani Machado. I thought that would help the well being aspects as well going forward. I love animals. So again, I just typed up my passions through working in a wildlife sanctuary. Walking slopes out in Costa Rica. And then I went to see this wonderful lady called Sally Nelson, who was a lawyer in private practice and went on to the General Counsel of a real estate fund. He is now in Costa Rica and as a Chris cage fan so I spent a lot of time with I just exploring what happens and coming up with steps to address that, and I mean, what a crazy coincidence, have you but but someone like Sally, you have the same, you know, career path would just be out there in Costa Rica. So it all lined up Really? Well. Sometimes these things are meant to be. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
Yeah, I think that sounds amazing. And I think everyone listening to that will be really jealous. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Right now that Yeah, I was 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
there now and I quit my job and went and learned to go and scuba dive in. It sounds like a dream and like you said, it's very Eat, Pray. Love. But one thing I did want to say though is if people can take a break, if they're feeling burnt out, then that's absolutely one of the best things you can do just taking that time away, away from the workplace. And not everyone might be able to have the time to do what you did or the money, of course, but even if it's just a couple of days, or even if you can't get away anywhere, and I think we've all learned on lockdown that even when we're working from home, we still need that break. That we're not in the office and you still need that break from work. So I think it's really important to say that if you're burnt out then absolutely just take some time time for you in whatever works best for you. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Oh, Abby 100% and look at this. The holiday was over it was excessive on some levels, but it partly just because you know, you kind of hadn't had a For such a long stretch of time, I just felt like you know what, I might not get this time again. So let's just kick everything off, but I've been wanting to do, but you're 100% right, you know, just two or three days, it doesn't have to be anything like going to Costa Rica, but just having time to really think through how you're feeling. And there's ways that you can improve your well being it's, it's vital. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
And do you think it helped you taking that break? 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Oh, 100% you know, particularly around just things like learning new skills like scuba diving and addressing you know, I had a year or so so just doing that and dressing some of these fears. It's a huge confidence booster for me. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
Yeah, having a fear of water and then learning how to scuba dive. There's nothing like packing at 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
this moment. Yeah. Was that yeah, totally one of those ones to just get some fears out of the way. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
But no Honestly, Caroline, I think that's such an inspirational story that you shared there. And, and like I said earlier, thank you, again for being brave and actually sharing the details of that, because I know that's not easy to do. But hopefully people listening to that will hear that, you know that they can be a light at the end of the tunnel, and there can be a way to get around these things. And because now when we're talking to you now and the success of you and smell beautiful, and so you came back from your trip, and you started a new role. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Yes. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
started this new venture at the same time. So I don't know if you want to explain a little bit about your job now. And then, of course, smell beautiful. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Yeah. So the new roles, I alluded it's, it's working as an m&a lawyer in a corporation. It's really been going fantastically well. I'm saying happy to say that because, you know, it's always a scary jumped making a career change, but it has worked out and and i think Okay, back to the point of just, you know, it goes to just the planning that I did before in terms of thinking about thinking about what would make me happy in the next step. And all these folks, it's obviously a crazy time to be changing jobs. You know, got a job. You're in lockdown. But I think what did put me to start so beautiful, it was obviously looking at the corporate situation. But I think that the kicker to actually decently like setting up a nonprofit was it's been that drive that I'd had since experiencing what I'm experiencing and changing careers, is to find out what my passions are and I'm still exploring that I think it will be a long a long time journey, but I just felt like you know, yeah, I want to I want to give this a go. I want to see what it's like. To set up a nonprofit to learn any skill. And I think that's just all part of the process that I'm going through right now. And it's been such a journey I've been I've learned so many skills that I wouldn't have even thought about when I set this up, you know, last week is I'm seeing an uptick in kind of media awareness about it and ended up getting interviewed on live BBC Radio and just you know that having to do with radio, it's just pretty terrifying. It's just not something I'd have even thought about doing when I started it. So I think about that journey, you just don't know what's going to happen. And you just got to roll with it and pick up any skills and go. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
Yeah, and I think it's so great what you're doing as well, like you said, it's a nonprofit. And but I just wanted to highlight again that you're making zero money from it, you are making all of these beautiful soaps and like you said, You've already delivered over 1000 packs and that's just you, making soap home from your kitchen, isn't it? That's not a work for 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Well, I mean, when when you're in London racking sensibly money on even things like to transport so me I just I've been gifted with actually not not having to worry about money and thinking, well actually I could do something a lot better with it. So to me it's a pleasure to do this and it feels a lot better than, you know, some of you typically spending money on so I'm happy to do this. And yeah, I think my boyfriend is perhaps feeling like there's a bit less space in the kitchen. I think been so much of it, so it's worth it. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
And it must be so rewarding as well because it's that giving back isn't it? And I always say like to lift yourself up, lift someone else up. And it's like doing a good deed makes you feel good inside, doesn't it so 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
tasty. And you know, I've read so many uplifting stories about people in local communities. doing this. And that's been hugely helpful for me and inspiring to hear about what they've got up to. Mm hmm. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
Yeah. And so yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. I just wanted to say again that, you know, your story is just absolute proof that if you do experience burnout, you're not a failure. There's not something wrong with you. You just need to make that little adjustment and figure out what's going to work for you and what's next and your absolute proof that you can overcome it and you can get better and have this new exciting venture on the side if you want one, or whatever, whatever people do want. But yeah, I think it is a really inspiring story for people to hear, especially if they are struggling with their own mental health at the moment. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Oh, you know, I'm so glad to hear you say about Abby, because this is opinionated. It's not easy to talk about, but if I can reach out and help someone then it was worth doing Yeah. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
So where can we find smell Beautiful now? Have you got anything coming up that we should know about? Or where can we find you? 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Yeah, so I have an Instagram page and @smellbeeauitful. If you think it looks nice, that's because I've had help from a wonderful marketing experts called Kerry Heaton and she's she's a local in the community and is just gifting her time to the social media efforts which I'm just so grateful for 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
the one doing good in the community. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
And if you want to find out more about the venture, if you know about Northamptonshire organisation that might really benefit from the States just drop me a line through that. I'd love to hear from you. And if you have resonated with any of the things like Thinking about it. Also feel free to drop me a line and I'm happy to talk. one on one with you. 
 
Abbey O'Hara 
Oh, that's lovely. Thanks, Caroline. And thanks again for sharing your story. And yeah, I hope smell beautiful goes really well and I can't wait to hear more about it. 
 
 Caroline Stocks 
Oh thank you 
 
Transcribed by https://otter.ai